Korey Cooper & Lacey Sturm

Lacey Sturm  0:00  
We're seeking is like our Creator. And what we're turning to is the creation like music that comes from that. And so we try to grab it and it's like, we bid into cotton candy or something and it's just like disappeared because that wasn't it. It was like that. That crazy longing like you satisfied it so called you thought you did, you swallowed you, you you you bit into it, you consumed it, and then it's gone. And you're like, Wait, I thought that was it?

Trevor Tyson  0:30  
What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of Trevor Talks. Today's episode is going to be pretty different on quite a few fronts. First of all, I've got a co host on the show, and we've never done that before. And I'm super excited to announce who that is. Which if you read the description, you already know who it is, but I like stand up comedy. I like Jimmy Fallon. So we'll just roll into letting you know who it is organically. First of all, the co host for this episode is a Grammy nominated powerhouse vocalist flatly frontwoman and the first independent female artists to top the Billboard Hard Rock Charts. We've got Lacey Sturm in the house, Lacey, welcome but an introduction I look at that. Man, I'm a fan. You can get that hoodie. You just showed jer Bramlett design this too. So we've got a shout out to Jeremy and then today's guest is the guiding force behind the 12 time platinum and Grammy nominated Rock Band skillet. Corey Cooper's in the house. We got to we've got to have the guidance horses and rock in general. When people are like, Oh, the female fronted nananananana y'all are paving the way for the males to so guys. Oh, this is crazy. We've got two powerhouse people here. And I've never seen this done before, especially with you too. So thanks for being open to do it.

Lacey Sturm  2:00  
Yay. So happy to be here. Thanks.

Trevor Tyson  2:04  
Yeah, so I am super thrilled to have you both in the same room quote, unquote. For this episode, I feel like there's a lot of unique things that we can talk about. But first of all, during this interview, we'll probably hear some soundcheck going on behind Cory. So how was winter drain feeding?

Korey Cooper  2:21  
What happens? Great, you know, the first weekend started off like rolling a little slow, I guess because people were still Omicron scared or unsure. But it's really picked up since then. So it's been exciting. People are just very, there's a new excitement with live music because well, frankly, a lot of us didn't know if it was going to come back. So the people coming out are just ready to use the perspective of just being very grateful that we're here. So a lot of things that we took for granted once you know we don't anymore and and that's a good thing. I think a perspective shift like that is always a good thing. So the crowds are rockin John's rockin The pants are rockin

Trevor Tyson  3:03  
Come on. Well, I know I said winter DRAM cheating you so thank you for just rolling with it. You never get too good at podcasting. You never get too good at interviewing we all make mistakes. So there. But Lacey House The Stay At Home screen. Yeah, you're doing all right.

Lacey Sturm  3:22  
Oh, you know, it's weird because I love being on the road. And I love being home. I just, I think being focused on just like what Cory was saying, being able to focus on your family is a gift that you don't appreciate until you have it and you're like, Wow, this is something I'm really getting used to. And then going on the road has its own little unique interaction with your family that's very focused in a different way, which I love this, this structure of being on the road, as weird as that sounds. Because we have tour managers and there's a hit time and the you know, so you know, the schedule, I'm going home, we're a lot more free. And sometimes that's harder, but it also can be funner and more adventurous, like, so I like it. I like it and I'm just trying to focus on being thankful that I'm where I'm supposed to be. Because maybe I should be there or maybe we should be here and, and I have to remember if I was supposed to be there, I'd be there. This be okay to be here. And then i i It's you know, just taking hold it that piece that you can grasp and like, grab it and be like, No, I'm gonna, you know, center.

Korey Cooper  4:40  
It's so true. It's so true because like home life is its own world of like we just had days off at home. Sometimes it's easier when you're on a tour to not go home, even though like you have a car and you have like you can take a shower when you want to. But then there's like, Oh no, there's so much laundry or like I should have cleaned out the fridge or like my family needs help with this. And so, like days off at home, I'm like, I come back to the road like now I can have actually like time off. When I get back to work. You know what I'm saying? Because you like you're saying, you have the structure, there's only so many things you can do. It's very focused on what that is. And even though you're so sore, because you do what you do on stage, and then you get bounced around all night, wherever you're sleeping. I don't know. Yeah, it's definitely two different mindsets and to roll between them both. It's like, it's a little difficult little shock to the system sometimes. Yeah.

Trevor Tyson  5:31  
Now, with you being so used to being on the road, y'all tore like, a lot more than most bands quarry. When the, you know, everything hit, I try not to say what it's called, because then they flagged stuff. So that wave of thing hit. You were at home for quite a while, and you're not used to being at home with the kids and your husband. What was that like for you? We asked John, and he said it was from Corys perspective, how was the thing being at home? Yeah, yeah,

Korey Cooper  6:03  
we had a, you know, we were on tour. And then it was like the last three shows got canceled or home. And we in our 25 years of marriage have never, never been home for that long. Because we do, we've toured from the start. So it was the longest time we've ever been off the road. And like, I guess for me, I'm just I don't have said I'm at an age or maybe where I'd never imagined myself doing this for 25 years. And you kind of get slaves for like, is it embarrassing now? Because I'm like, knocking on 50. And like, a lot of the kids in the audience are I could be there like grandmother? Or do you not have a say like, in your natural thinking, you're just like, you know, I'd be fine to like, just be home. And so but I actually really loved being home. It's kind of like maybe a little bit like what Lacey was saying, wherever you are, you put your all into it, right? Because life's just too short. So if this is where God has me, and clearly it is because the thing happened, and this is where we are, then let's pour our lives into whatever God has for us here. So we are actually crazy busy, obviously, on the one hand wondering, are we ever going to go back to doing what we are doing? How will we make the bills, you know, XYZ, there's the practical things. Like, alright, this is where God has us, we're at peace with it. And he's going to provide for us. And so John and I started doing like, we started leaving our young adults group at church, I jump into worship team, which is like, my passion is worship stuff. So being able to just be involved at all, it was like such a blessing. And then whatever else was needed. So and he you know, is doing all of his reading. And he just reads all the time and like cultural studies and like talking to theologians about blah, blah, blah. So he's off in his own world busy. I'm off in my own world busy. And then typically at night, it's almost like being on the road. I don't really see him most of the day. He didn't see me most of the day, we play our show. Then after the show, we just show them like talk about like, Hey, how was your day? It was cool. So in some ways, it was similar,

Lacey Sturm  8:00  
like merit like, which is the typical idea that I've never seen where like, they they go off to work, and then you talk about the day when you like, TV show like that happens. I thought that was crazy.

Korey Cooper  8:12  
Yeah, it's kind of weirdly like that, even though when we're working, obviously, we're working together. But you're just like, Alright, you're at a meet and greet. You're at a q&a, you're on stage, he goes off to do something else interviews this, that and the other. And then you're just kind of making sure the whole ship row runs smoothly, you know, so life at home was awesome. It was actually a shock to the system to come back, you know, a little bit like what Lacey saying, I didn't want to come back. I was like, do I have to Lord and then it was kind of like, yeah, and then I had like, to the week of like, it was kind of depressing to me. Like a breakdown, like I just who we are so fruitful here. And I love it here. And I love what's happening here. And like the idea of going back into that little boss, which I'm not complaining about being a boss, because we did the van days, but you know, that little world where it's suffocating. Sometimes, you know, I don't know if I could do that again. And I don't want to, but the Lord was like you're doing it. So we had our little struggle that week. But then we got back out and it was like, Alright, I know supposed to be here as Grace is here with me. And so just gotta rely on that, you know?

Trevor Tyson  9:14  
Well, so segues really cool into so many people like Oh, once I reached this amount of fame, or touring, etc, I'm always going to be fulfilled. And some people are called to what you're doing which I I strongly believe that both of you are called the be living in these quote unquote, rock star shoes. A lot of people strive for that. And I think that it's going to fix them. But you get to those days where you're like, I'll never get tired of it. This is going to be my wife. I'm going to be so excited. I'm going to write music and people are going to come and celebrate me in concert and then I'm gonna go to sleep. I don't get that vibe from either one of you. But like even being at the mountaintop for say, have a music career like being in skillet. In touring arenas, and theaters and such, you didn't want to go back. Like, this is a calling that God has on your life. And a lot of times, even for like myself, personally, some days you wake up and you're like, I don't want to do it, but I know I'm called to do it.

Korey Cooper  10:16  
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think not to give you the overly spiritual answer. But this is just truly what I believe. If you're looking for something else to fulfill you, other than the Lord, you're always going to be disappointed. And you know, disillusioned which disillusionment isn't a bad thing, because it's like the removal of an illusion, almost like if I can just get XYZ, whatever that might be. Some people do it with their marriage, if I can just meet the right guy, then I'm going to be totally fulfilled within it. The fact of matter is that ultimate fulfillment comes from the Lord, right. So I don't really care what I do for my job, I enjoy doing music. I do love music, but I don't really care what I do, as long as I'm obedient to Him like today, you know, so like living in this moment, which is today, it's not that I don't have dreams, but I just, I just want to honor him in this day, with whatever he's asked me to do it, it might be cleaning the toilet, it might be making sure we have bus stock and our bus or or, you know, who knows what it might be not glamorous, but the glamorous stuff doesn't fulfill you either. And if you're looking forward to you're just gonna be disappointed, you know,

Lacey Sturm  11:26  
I'm really bad. And Josh hasn't really he talks about this all the time, because he dreamed of rock stardom since he was young. And he talked about going on tour with us as a guitar tech, and even sometimes stepping on stage to fill in for whatever reason, as a guitarist and flyleaf and how he came away, even from the very experience of being on stage, like once and locking off like in front of like, a download fest or something, you know, like, huge, like, huge, you know, can't see the end of the crowd and the hear the roar and whatever, and you walk off and and he said The drop was so profound, he was like, Okay, now what you know, is like, if you even see that, like, you can tell that in a in a worldly, like, in a sense of like, just what the pursuit of the world is, in general, but it's also true and people who pursue great spiritual highs is Well, I think it's pretty easy, you can see that and great saints are spirit, you know, people the past you like, did a great thing. And, and they saw, like, I guess, a change in, you know, they saw God move in a great way. And then they're like, way down and like, low and like, don't want to live like, over in the Scripture, you see that? And so that's really encouraging to me. Because I feel that like, happen, whether the world's really happy with you, or it seems like seems like God is really happy with you, or, like, things are successful in whatever measurement you had in your brain. And then it's over and you're like, Okay, now what? And it's a such a jarring like reality of like, what was I? Starting? Right? What was that running after? Because I like it's like the dog trying to catch the car. And once you got it, what do you do with it? You know, like, you know, it's, it's not it's not what you saying and your brain what you make up with? Like, now I've reached, whatever. I don't know, that's, that's a struggle to maintain. Like you said, it was so beautiful. He said it if I can be satisfied, because I'm supposed to be cleaning the toilet. Like, like, paying attention to that. What are you doing? Like, why is that glamour? Why is that fulfilling? And it's fulfilling the same reason it's fulfilling to stand on stage is because, you know, that's what you're called to do. And did I fulfill that, that purpose to love? And to be law? Like?

Korey Cooper  14:01  
Yes. Yeah, I think I think like we can kind of forget because, well, we're American, firstly, and we're like a social media crazy world, which is can unknowingly make you very narcissistic. So you think like, God's purposes are all about me doing something amazing for him, which is kind of like already crazy. But and so if you can have the mindset of, I want to see God's glory fill this earth, right. I want to see people set free. I want to see people know him. Because if you do, and he saves your life, He restores you to what he had created humans to do, which is to walk in His presence, right? And to know Him, and you will not have fear and you will not have all the bad stuff that the enemy throws at you because he's coming to steal, kill and destroy right. So if I can see people walk in freedom in the kingdom of God and his glory, Phyllis Earth I want to be a part of that, right? Because I love him so much. And I want to see people set free. And so if that means me, watching Atticus for Lacey, while she takes the stage, I am so blessed to do that, right? Because it's bigger picture than just me and me looking great or getting the glory or doing something that I think is amazing or really fulfilling for me. What is fulfilling for me is serving God's purposes in my lifetime. So while I have strength, and while I have breath, I will do whatever that means, because I want to see His glory fill the earth, right. And I think a lot of times, we think we're gonna find fulfilment and us doing something amazing, and which is why I love the you know, unless a man denies himself daily, to accept his cross and follows me, he's not worthy to be my disciple. It's totally the opposite of me being amazing, or me doing something amazing forgot as if, as if he needs me to, right, he doesn't need me to do anything for him. But if I get to be a part of it, right, then I will concede the advance of his kingdom in my lifetime. And I get to be a little piece of what that looks like, right to the for the advancement of the kingdom. So the more that you learn how to like serve people, and die to yourself daily, actually, the more happy you will be, the more fulfilled you will be. Because you're realizing this isn't about me, this is about him. And I can be a part of it. And I just love that. So whatever that looks like, it might look like rocking the stage, you might say, well, you get to rock stage every night with bubba. I don't really want to be doing this at my age, I as I said, some kind of like, it is fun. But I'd rather you know, be home and whatever, XYZ. But this is where he has me. So hey, I enjoy it. I'm blessed to be doing what I'm doing. I'm not complaining for sure.

Trevor Tyson  16:46  
And God's called you to be in that spot. And I've come to find like in my life personally, if he's called you to do it, like, a lot of times, maybe you don't want to do it. It's not that thing. Drive to do this, like, I really feel called to do this. But they kind of go back on what Lacey was talking about Josh walking off stage and be like, Well, what's next from Download Festival and stuff? It the first thing that popped in my mind was God called Lacey away from flyleaf and that season, and gave her the calling to go home and raise her child and be with her husband. And fans. People didn't understand it at the time, but God was calling you to do that. Lacey. Did you have that experience where you're like, I missed that rush of being on stage on missing fans, I miss being that person for people, or was it just God gave you complete satisfaction being at home?

Lacey Sturm  17:40  
Well, no matter where you are, you're gonna have to, like KOREK described. Remember, where your satisfaction actually comes from. Because as soon as you start dying to this illusion of this is gonna make me happy, this me satisfied this. When you start dying to that, then you start seeing that come out of your life, you start seeing the so called satisfaction that you would like, you start seeing these great things happen. And because it's because you let go of trying to take it around and hang on to it and make it your source. Once you let go, then all of a sudden, you can enjoy it. And it's like this crazy adventure life of like, where like you're yielded to where the winds blowing, you have his you know what he does, and so that then when you start turning towards the things that are coming, because you surrendered, and you start trying to grab them, you're back in that place of like, just slippery slope constantly losing, constantly being dropped constantly, like this roller coaster of up and down, up and down, like, feeling like you're never and that, you know, like that. I'm never going to be happy. You know, you see so many people at the height that that have a Deathwish almost in the middle of it because they're like, What else is there? I've tasted everything. And until they find that, all the beauty I think like CS Lewis talks about all the beauty we ever longed for, was to discover the author of beauty itself. You know, we long for you. Why do we long for music? Because we long for the author of music. I mean, Scripture says God sings over us like, that's crazy. Like he put a song book in the middle of the scriptures inspired by his Spirit, like, like he is he music flows out of him. And so what we're seeking is like, our Creator, and what we're turning to is the creation like music that comes from that. And so we try to grab it and it's like, we've been into you know, what is it cotton candy or something and it's just like disappeared because that wasn't it? It was like that. That crazy longing Like You satisfied it so called you thought you did, you swallowed you, you, you, you bit into it, you consumed it and then it's gone. And you're like, Wait, I thought that was it. So no matter if I'm home, which was really an interesting experience for me, because I'm such an emotional person, General, I, you I usually I usually would define myself as a young person as super sensitive spiritually are sensitive. Like, like, passionate is what I would say, you know, I'm a screamer, you know, I'm angry. You're serious, and I've got a scrape. And you're gonna judge the eggs. Like, it's like this. That's what we do as rockers, I guess? I don't know. I love the emotional vomit of rock music and like Nirvana and like, you don't have to sing? Well, it's not about the music like musicality. It's about do you mean it? Can I believe you? Can I follow you revolutionary? You know, that's all the things. But as I grew in my, you know, and saw that sort of same thing we've been talking about, sort of lead me into destruction, like a follow my emotions into death, and it lied to me. It ended up in deception and all and back in a suicidal place. And like, I thought I could follow my feelings into and I did thinking that was determining truth. And it ended up following it. I wrote about that in the mystery, just into destruction and death, and away from everything that brought me life. It was, again, that thing trying to grab onto the feelings. And as soon as I got out of that, I started to learn wisdom is not based on feelings. Truth is not based on feelings, they're fickle, they come and go. And just because I'm passionate about it doesn't mean it's right. And doesn't mean that I'm right. And could be completely wrong. I could be willing to die for a lie, which I was in that season, whenever I was in ministry. And so passion is not the thing. Feelings aren't the thing. And so I remember in that season, when I had my son

Lacey Sturm  22:17  
coming out of that season, where I realized that my emotions lie to me, I kind of went to zero in my emotions. And I remember having my son and thinking, I'm gonna have all these, like, I'm a mom, and I get to love my child and knees gonna be the most, you know, the thing. And it was like, I loved him. But it wasn't this overflowing emotional experience, which was so interesting, because it was a different kind of love. It was a consistent, like, it was in like, listen to me, if I my younger self was listening to my self right now, I'd be like, so turned off by this. I'm like, that's, that's not love. You know, but I had to learn love is more than your feelings, which is so me on my brain when I was younger. I'm like, what, you just don't have emotions, like, what is that? But that, I mean, I guess if you take antidepressants you some people say which I never, I never did take them. But I knew people who that taught them to come to zero so they can evaluate the situation without their emotions involved, you know, that it brought them to a place of just understanding and then in the end, they didn't have to keep taking it because they learn to say, well, if I can evaluate my wife's words, right now, there's this dude who's, you know, one of my pastors, without all the emotions, I can see. She's not trying to be rude to me. I'm just taking it offensively. You know what I mean? I'm just being really emotional. And so if I can realize that, maybe I can do it, even when I feel it, and just take it at face value. Does that make sense? So when I went home, it was a different experience for me. And it wasn't emotionally high or low. But it was so thick with, with with learning wisdom, with it was like the most dense, beautiful, real kind of love that's like, no matter what happens, no matter what I feel, no matter. Like I like was like a covenant love, like a commitment like your and any, you know, a human eternal being that's gonna last forever. Like, I get to love you, I get to come alongside, you know, what develops in your life. And like you said, you want to see people free. I want you to experience freedom that I never experienced. And I'm going to, you know, try to foster that for you. So you don't have to like go on the roller coasters the same way I did and get dropped all the time. And anyway, I'm talking way too much.

Trevor Tyson  24:52  
No, that's awesome. is the kind of like circle the wagon here. That's a very country thing to say oh, why? As

Trevor Tyson  25:06  
with a lot of young creators and artists out there, like you touched on a little bit earlier, Corey like we live in a social media realm right now they're coming out with the metaverse, which confuses the crap out of me like, why would I have real estate in something that doesn't actually exist? I don't understand it. But like now that I'm thinking about it, it's equivalent to Oh, a lot of people want that little blue verified checkmark on their Instagram profile when they find verification, and that, in fact, they call it verification, very odd to them. But it's odd to me. But how can we take some time to help young creators and artists manage expectations early on in their calling or career for say, for like people that want to be a quarry, Cooper or Lacey Sturm, but they're not called to do that, I believe there can be a healthy fascination with what people are doing and becoming a fan. But people that want to walk in those shoes, if God hasn't called you to it that's setting yourself up to really have that low feeling and life. So how can we differentiate like the calling to be rock star with the fascination of it? How can we help these young entrepreneurs and creators from getting lost and getting low and their feelings in that way?

Korey Cooper  26:21  
Yeah, I mean, this calling that we have, and I don't place would feel the same way. But probably, it is such a difficult calling to have, and still come away with your soul. And so most people who, you know, a lot of musicians just this is what they want to do. So how they can distinguish between if they've been called to do it or not. I mean, to me that say, it's a prayerful thing, it's being able to be self aware enough to evaluate, will I come away with my soul? If I walk into the lion's den? You know? And also, it's a relational thing? I mean, firstly, are you even good enough musically? Not that that necessarily matters these days, I suppose. But

Korey Cooper  27:12  
anybody can. Yeah, and there's all that too, which sometimes people you know, people chase that. But like, Do you know what you're chasing? Is it just for the fame? Is it just to be that person with the voice? And do you actually have it? Why? And what is that going to do to your soul? And do you actually have anything to say? And, you know, I always like to look at my life, you know, with the framework of an eternal perspective, right? So read Ecclesiastes, read Proverbs lacy talking about wisdom. This is, this is what we're saying, like, Okay, if you could imagine yourself standing before God at the end of your life? Is everything going to burn that you built? Is everything gonna burn that you chased? Or and then you're gonna regret it right? Like, I actually, I know, we don't like to think about ultimate things anymore. And that's part of what social media does, it kind of keeps you distracted from like, focusing on things that matter and looking at things in yourself that need to change or whatever that might be looking for validation. And it all has become very shallow and very, we just don't think anymore. We don't want wisdom. We don't think about deeper things. Like, we're all gonna die, we know it, we just don't like to think about it, we're all gonna die. And if you stand at the end of your life looking back, like, who really cares? So you were a rock star? Like, who cares like that all burns, the money burns, the fame burns. But what did you do? Like, is God pleased with me? Like, did I help people in this life? Right? Or did everybody around me just not like me, because I'm all about myself. And I'm all about, well, my dreams have unfolded from the victim, like this victim thing that we've got going on on our society is just so ugly grievance, victim bitterness, like if that's at the core of of you, it will, that will steal your soul, it will steal your life, it will still love it, it will steal peace, everything good and godly, it will steal from you. And then we wonder why we're an empty shell that can't feel and that we can't ever get what we want. Our perspective is so awful. I'm like, it's just don't do this job. If you haven't evaluated if you can handle it, right. So like, even all the way back 25 years ago, and well, I will say when I was about 13 is when I felt like God called me to do music. So that was longer than 25 years ago. But I said okay, I don't know what that means. I don't know what my next steps will be. But I know I want to honor God with it. So I studied theology started reading CS Lewis, and all the old school nothing really new because I'm like, I want to prospective that's not just my cultural idea of who Jesus is. I want like old school wisdom, orthodox teaching. So I did all that read my Bible. Like I need to know God, I need to know His voice. You need to know his ways otherwise I won't bother him with my lyrics, I won't honor him with my music or my life. So want that to above anything else? And then there's like the studying of music that you do. And then there's like the okay, if I'm going into a world that is not Christian music, which is what I always want to do be a voice and in that, then what does that world look like? It's almost like you know how they, they say the devil is like a parasite. He doesn't really have like power on his own, but he sucks. He takes things and he twists and that God has created that are good, like music, and oh, suck the life out of it and use it to promote you know, sex, drugs, rock and roll basically chaos, anything that goes against God. So if I go into that world, where that's what everything is about, you're a fool. If you don't think that's going to affect you, you're a fool. If you don't think that the enemy is going to come after you, if you shine the light and darkness, you know what the darkness doesn't like it, right? So your full view, if you go into that alone, like let's say, you're going to be in a band, but most of your bandmates aren't Christians or you don't have a church life, you don't have accountability, you don't have relationships that are gonna be like we have accountability in our church with our leaders, friends. And we've said to them, if we ever get off base, if stuff starts falling apart, you yank me off as you tell me because I won't recognize it. If it gets that far. And you yank me off the road, because I don't want to dishonor God with my life. So this soberness of knowing what you're going into, really needs to be the case as well. And then wondering, Hey, is that what you want your life to speak of? And will you be true to that? You know?

Lacey Sturm  31:37  
Yeah, not so good. And that's, that's, that's one of the things I mean, it makes me want to cry thinking about how many people I love so much. They're so talented as musicians, and that they don't just exactly the questions you ask, which was, what are you going to say? Why do you want to do it? Are you can you handle the drops and the warfare going on in your life right now? If you are, if you can't handle it now, how are you going to handle it when you're in an arena, where you go into hate hell fest? And people who are outwardly, you know, conjuring demons. And you're like, not affected or attracted or, or odd or afraid, like you said about, you know, like, Do you know who you are, without the audience telling you who you are. So that when they boo you, which we had a lot of that in the beginning of flyleaf, like, man, we went out with who were static X, oh, my gosh, our fans was so hard like it was they threw things at us and cussed us. And we're like, it hated us. Right. But we were able to, you know, open on a tour, like, can you take the, you know, in social media is even worse? Like, what are you gonna do? And I think that some of that is making this generation really honest, in a way that is beautiful, that I haven't seen, because they expect to be criticized almost if they come on social media. So there's some of that that feels really beautiful. Like, Trevor, you are, I love you so much. I'm so proud of everything I've seen you walk through such grace. And I can't believe how young you are. You know, and you and you have you have that you've seen tragedy hit people around you, and you have continued to walk on, you've used it as fuel to go, Well, I have another day. You know, it's not just like Cory said, we're going to die. And so everything's gonna burn that doesn't have to do with gala God. Like, it's like, if it's dead, dried leaves that are dead already. They're just gonna, but if it's purified gold or silver or whatever, that's gonna shine and glow. Right? The fire does, and God is a consuming fire and we're going to be united with him when we die. But also the people beside us, they are going to have to face that, you know, the people that we walk with the people that have already we lost. I mean, I I've lost so many people. It particularly the people I've lost to despairing things, like deaths of despair, they call them you know, whether it's suicide or drug overdose or, or, you know, those things like that is the fuel in me to say, is this important eternally? I do not have one freaking day to waste on entertainment. Like being an entertainer, or, you know, because I have three boys and I, if that's an I need not only to focus on what's right in front of me, I need to show them what is eternally important. How do we answer it? If today was my last day, or today was that one person Since last day, and I'm beside, what do we do with it? I mean, that goes to momentum worry. Do you? What are you going to do? And I guess we don't even know the answer. That's why, like you said was so good what you said, you're like, am I called to this? Am I being a fool? Like, like, help, like, learn about your, you know, what does it look like to be who you're created to be? That's one of the things you said about God that I thought was so good, that God is me is constantly forming us into what he created us for the continuously exp like, what there's probably some description is really good for this. But it's like continuously, like exposing and the things that are death and so that we can let go of them. And the things that are oh my gosh, that come to life, this, this is where peace is flowing. This is where joy comes is where and it's when we face the hard things, and we find him overcoming through us when we surrender. Like, it wasn't even me that overcame that, like, literally the story that I tell that people are the most happy about, or always thanking me for are the ones where I was the worst evil person. I hated people. And God rescued me from all the things, you know, like, Thank you for your story.

Lacey Sturm  36:16  
I'm like, Okay. I mean, what did I do, I'm glad he writes good stories.

Trevor Tyson  36:27  
Yeah, goes into like, I, here's a little hot take, like, canceled culture is the complete opposite of the teachings of Christ. Like, you're never too far gone, come as you are, like, if we're gonna proclaim that, and then stone him like on social media, like they don't need to have a platform on the platform, this person not to get into anything too specific. But like, there's, there's so much grace that God has for us. And he welcomes us with open arms. And it's so beautiful. And even today, like, I've literally seen with my own eyes, where people are like, this person is a sheep in wolf's clothing. I hate them, like, cancel this person. But if we're gonna sit here and preach, like, Come as you are, you're never too far gone, and then turn around, and oh, this person doesn't need a platform. They messed up. I can't imagine having some of the things that I've messed up with publicized by, and I openly talk about them. But like when you come out and say something like, Hey, I screwed up here. And I want to use it to teach people. You still did that thing. So canceled culture is so bias to me like oh, like we're going to expose you but if you you still did the deed, right. So canceled culture is dumb, hot take so much grace for us. And, yeah,

Lacey Sturm  37:51  
it's really cool the way that you I mean, you're in media. I mean, you, you do interviews, you have to consider different perspectives. You have to think, why don't they go off the rails here? Why don't want to do it? You know, like, it's so interesting, your position of having to consider what, where's the light in this situation where it is God doing hair saying here and in pointing to that, you know, through all the mess like, well, let's look at what, okay, yeah, God, the devil has a plan. And he's but what's God's plan? Like? Yeah, the devil is doing this. But what's God doing? Like? It's like, Where's the light in here? Where is the hidden like, overcoming moments and just like you said, you bring those, bring those weaknesses out, and those but if that's our desert, our testimony is not about our, our greatness. It's about our, how you rescue us out of our, you know, our death?

Korey Cooper  38:52  
Yes. Yeah, it's kind of like, we contend to think back to the calling thing, that it's about the calling or the dream. And if Scripture teaches us anything, it's that it's not about the dream. It's about the journey. Right? So like, you have somebody like Joseph, who has a dream, like a literal dream, but then what is his life look like? You know, and all the things that we read about in the, in the Bible, their lives are messy, and I love that the Bible shows us their failures, and the success successes, because I think we can tend to think like alright, we have this calling and then it's going to be amazing and then we get disappointed and God when it hasn't happened or wasn't amazing. Didn't look like what we saw. But like you look at a life like Joseph well, okay, so he has a dream. So now he's like, Yes, I'm gonna, everybody's gonna bow to me, blah, blah. And then what happens like from his very brothers, it's not and a lot of times the hits can come from people that are closest to you, right? But the Bible talks about the trials and testings, they produce something that far out while always gold, right? It's like it's the process of sanctification and working through your own mess, right. Once you're born again, you you You are a new creation, but you're still figuring out how to please go with your life and he will constantly be bringing stuff up that you're just like, oh, man, I thought I dealt with this, like, Have I grown at all? Like, I'm still dealing with this bad attitude or I'm still dealing with depression, right? Like, I think it sounds like you guys can all relate to sadness, I can relate to the sadness as well. It's a matter of like, Why do I carry this like, I, my life is good. And you know, I don't have any reason to like, in a lot of ways, I feel like I can relate to a see in her heart for the Lord. And part of the way her DNA is made up. But our stories are very different, you know, from our upbringings, mine is like, great family, middle class, you know, good siblings, parents are great love the Lord. But I always dealt with his sadness, right? And it's, it's a matter of sort of, like, alright, God brings stuff up in your life, and you measure your reality, I suppose with or perspective with the truth of the Word and like, what does this look like? Okay. Um, so the joy of the Lord is supposed to be my strength. I don't understand that. Like, I still pray for that, because it's not really naturally the way that I feel. But I but I feel like after however many years walk with the Lord, I'm beginning to get a taste of what that is. But it's me, like, I'll still keep asking you, right. And part of that is like your face your faith journey is looks like Joseph, it looks like I have a dream. And I'm excited. I'm my dad's favorite. And now my brothers betray me and almost kill me, but then just saw me to slavery. And then he's working out of his house favor of God there, obviously. And then, you know, gets called you gets accused of something, he didn't do it, it looks like he did it. Now he's in prison. So before he was a sort of slave, and now he's in prison. And yet, he's still got his honing his gifting and causing him to grow in wisdom. So that God is actually preparing him for what do you call them to do to do in saving like the world basically, not even just the people of God, but the entire world. And when he got the got the call for that he was prepared, but the preparation looks so crazy, like how, but he kept that sort of growing in his walk with the Lord growing in his wisdom, growing in his understanding, to the point where oily when he finally got it, it's like what you were saying about Josh, like, when you find the goddess, like, oh, is this something I even want, like, I don't even have the same feelings about it anymore. I don't have the same drive for it or ambition for it. Now. It's just like, I know who I am before the Lord. Now in a sovereignty is the time for me to be here and figure out a huge mess that a nation is about to go into a famine. And now you got to figure it out. There you go. There's your calling, you know, it's like that journey of faith, like, I'm not going to give up, I'm going to keep believing that. God is good. And his word applies to me and His power is with me to accomplish whatever that is. And if he wants me to let go of ideas of what those things are great, I'll serve him. I'll honor him today. And in the honing of who you are, God will open doors, but you got to trust him to open those doors, you know? Yeah. And it'll be the best way because it's God's way.

Trevor Tyson  43:03  
And it looks very different for a lot of people. But one thing that I think of is like, if you think of like skillets discography you've got do not hold me accountable if I screw up, okay. We've got collide comatose, awake, rise, victorious, no, unleashed, victorious. And then now. Frick, Dominion, like, you, literally, you're mapping it out right there. That's a lot of our journeys. Like, we were once asleep, and now we're awake, and now. And now we're able to celebrate the dominion that God has for us. Right? And yes, that had y'all had to map that out pretty early. It seems

Korey Cooper  43:51  
not mapped out at all everyone always asks Is that even like when we go into write, we don't really know what the theme is going to be, you know, you just end up writing and writing and writing. And then as it's worked out for us, we look back and we're like, oh, there's a theme here. Oh, and it kind of goes to this. It's kind of a progression from the last record, but we've never done that on purpose. It just kind of like, has constantly so yeah, oh, it always just happens. You're like, I guess there's more of a story than we realize. But

Trevor Tyson  44:20  
yeah, it's it's fascinating. And even to think about right now, Dominions been out for a little over three weeks and over 33 million people have streamed it. That is crazy. Even to go back and what we were talking about rock stars and everything. You don't plan for that. You don't plan for so many people to want to hear your art and what you're creating and for God to give you such an anointing with it even for writing music with Lacey like the decree say to me awaken love to be announced. Like there's so many things that God wants to speak through us but it comes out so differently, especially when If you're not claiming this title but an artistic genius like yourself like yeah, there's so many different outlets that you could speak from like the spark album that just came out that you I didn't know you were on yet busted me listen to when I was getting ready for this interview. Yeah. So good. By the way, it's so good. And God's giving you such a talent with that. And you're so humble about it. And I know you're gonna, not me, but even me and Lacey were talking about like, Yeah, you like.

Lacey Sturm  45:30  
You're like, really, really good at stewarding this. Like, I mean, we're riding together. I just remember being really amazed at your ability. Because most artists are not organized. Like they don't like that. But you're an artist, and you're very diligent and and that's a good steward. You're great at stewarding it, you know, yeah, thanks. I

Korey Cooper  45:55  
mean, sorry, go ahead.

Trevor Tyson  45:57  
Oh, well, I was gonna say with dominion, like, Why do you think this record in particular is doing so? Well? Not even just on the charts, like people are relating with it, people were relating with the lyrics. They hear it in there. Like, I'm going through that right now. But you so segue?

Korey Cooper  46:14  
Well, I mean, a truthful answer to that question is, I have no idea. And I'm finally in my life and peace about the fact that I've no idea why something's hit and why something's go super broad, and why some things never get heard that you're like, This is amazing and anointed, and why is this one not getting out there? You know, but, uh, obviously, when you're writing. I mean, I would say John is he just has like, culturally prophetic guys he always has. And I think it's really one of the main reasons why we are still doing this after 25 years, which is kind of crazy for a rock rock band to have the life that it has. And I think it's partially because he, he has his radar always on, like, what's going on in culture? And why are people saying this, and this is a new thing that they're saying. So I think for him, the potency of the Lyric is a lot to do with the things that he's perceiving, you know, and reading about studying, but also just prophetically, you know, I think it's our job as the church to kind of see what's happening in culture and, and speak to it, right, I hate to use the word irrelevant, because it's just overused. And I don't really like what it's become to mean, in some cases, when I say relevant, I don't mean compromised, and like, let's just act like the world so that they like us. I don't mean that but like, alright, what does the Bible have to say, to this moment right now, and you got to spell it out for people. Because otherwise there's a separation of like, this is what the Bible says. And this is what's happening in my real life, and it doesn't really speak to it. So I think as artists, part of what you want to do is sort of make that connection for people of like, this is what God is speaking in this moment right now. You know, so when I'm writing with John, he is he's on it. He's studying and praying and like, What does God have to say through us with this album, you know, when right with some like Lacey she's on in a different way, like when I write with John is way different. It's way more like, calculated. And he's just like, not that he's not a feeler, but he didn't write like a feeler, if that makes sense. He's more like, I'm feeling something. And here it is. And we're done. And if I'm not like, fast to the draw with everything, I don't even I'm not at my last you know, because he's so fast. And lace rates more naturally, the how I write like, Okay, I want to find the voice of God. Right now, in this moment with what this music quarry does play something and let's kind of feel it out for a while and see what God's saying to us right now. Let's let's take communion, like awakened love was like, we had like three days, right? And one one of the days. So this is the day before the awaken love. We wrote two songs that day, and I remember what they were, but it was more like a Okay, lace. I got some ideas, do you like them? And we wrote two songs. And it was more like, regimented, calculated work, even though we're feeling within it. But then the next morning, she comes in, she's like, Cor, let's just take me and I'm like, already in like, work. So because I'm used to working with John and he's just like, if you don't get it done, then you never get any ideas at play. And like, you know, like, you have to be so fast and like manic. Like, let's take communion. And let's just like, why don't you play something. So I only had like, No, my big keyboard hooked up. I only had like a little tiny little keyboard and I'm just like playing like a pad. And we're praying and like worshiping and whatever. And it was waste. You never know where it's gonna go. Like, my only goal is to like to make sure we get something done because the two of us could just get lost in the presence of God and Josh is gonna be so mad at me because he flew over here, and we didn't get any work done. So I'm like, I gotta just try to like manage all that. So worshiping and then you know, it was like, Hey, I kind of have like this idea. Can you just tape it before we forget it and then we can move on to whatever you want to work on. And so it was the start of what ended up being the awaken love For us, and then we just sort of roll it from there. But it's definitely more of like a feel like it doesn't all have to be locked in in that moment for lace, because she needs to feel what is God saying through this?

Lacey Sturm  50:12  
explaining myself to me, because I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm so happy to hear you talking about it. Because I don't.

Korey Cooper  50:19  
Yeah, like my goal. As like a writer, if I'm writing, I'm usually writing with people, right. So it's not like it was so clear, and I don't want to. So if I'm writing with people, I try to quickly assess what makes them feel the cause co writes can be really uncomfortable, right? Sometimes you run around with somebody you don't know, and maybe don't even like the style of what they're doing. And then sometimes they're kind of rude. Like, they're, they just only want their ideas. And so you're just like, this is going to be a waste of like, two hours, or I can try to jump in, but it's probably so like, it can be really awkward. And somebody's vulnerable, right? Because you want to write what got to speak into me now and, and whatever. So I try to quickly assess with the people that I'm writing with. And I really choose to only work with people that I really want to work with, if that makes sense. I'm not like trying to get myself out there as a writer, producer. So I always want to work with Lacey. I love her I love what she's about. I love the anointing on her life. And so but with lace, the way that I can make her feel most comfortable. So now you're gonna, you're gonna hear behind the you know, what's working before at least he shows up is like the she's a prophetic person. She needs like the vision for what it is that we're writing. So I'll try to come in with ideas. Sometimes we just do it on the fly. But I'll try to come up with ideas in case we can come up with anything in the moment where there's a theme of like, prophetic, something that God is speaking in this chorus. And even if I don't have the whole course locked in, so then when Lacey comes in, if we're not taking communion, we're gonna start, you know, working now, I tried to give her the vision for what this is. And then she floats into her like, amazing, prophetic, round feel. And then we go from there. But with other people like with Jen, she's way more calculated. So she's just kind of like a, here's like a jingle and sort of like a cool word that we can ride around. And then we go from there. So it just depends on where people feel safe. They're gonna write their best stuff. So

Lacey Sturm  52:10  
depending on what's crazy, cuz Josh is so funny. I'm married to somebody who's so different from me in that and of course, that's why it always works. But it's like, it's the thing that is, is it makes people insane. Like there's like, I remember this flyleaf a little bit. They're like, What are you talking about? Like you need it needs to be more victorious. Like, that's not a word. That's not a term, a musical term you need to come up with you want it faster. Do you want like, what note Do you want? I'm like, no, like,

Korey Cooper  52:44  
feel you. You are a real person. So it needs to feel victorious. You got to figure out what that what that is for you.

Lacey Sturm  52:53  
Yeah, it's so amazing that you're willing to figure that out with me because, because I remember going in with David hajus as well. And we had a moment where we tried to just like he played some music, and I just sort of see what happens. And it was just the biggest flop of like, he was like, Well, that was waste of time, because let's just move on. It was awkward. Because we did something Hodges, but he but he didn't work that way. He was like, this is the idea. This is where we're going to work out. And that made sense. And I can work with that. But it's it's different. It's a different.

Korey Cooper  53:29  
Yeah. Yeah, most, like when we when I do sessions, most of them don't work like you do. And I actually work like you do. So I when I get to work with you, I'm like, it's almost like, the flow just starts coming so fast. Because it's like, you know, bounce off you and you and you're like the lyric genius. So and you've got such flow. So I'm like, Alright, I get to sort of feel now and fit, we can stay in the field for longer. We don't have to, like lock this in today. And then I'll go away from like working with you because we're at my house. And I'm like, Oh man, now that I know what she likes and the things that make her feel a certain way I can like at now I have eight more ideas and like so after you move on, like it'll be days and days and be like, oh, oh, I gotta shut it down. I gotta move on.

Lacey Sturm  54:20  
When I was there I think I was there three days or something. How long was there? I don't know. I think it was three days. Way too many songs for three days it was like six months or something right or something ridiculous. Like this

Trevor Tyson  54:32  
is great. Anything about that I've noticed with Lacey is just to talk about awaken love for a second. That song started off as encounter me. And then it had a whole different message. There was no violence involved until maybe what Lacey the last week before the master. That's when the violins got involved in at first like you get so used to hearing the other MCS and the other weird

Lacey Sturm  54:57  
characters and our music out and the demos

Trevor Tyson  55:00  
Yeah so like you, when I heard it the first time I was like, this is very Celtic, but the here even like things that maybe like coming, I'm not gonna say too much, I'm not gonna get you in trouble. It's, they change actively, like Lacey's an idea person, a visionary when she hears it like you got to do it. And even like when it comes to cover art the hand that's holding the sun, all of that came out of that little head right there with a stripe beanie on it. And it's it's fascinating. And I'm sure way, like, It's wild. I I'm like, where did this even come from? How did you hear this, like, it's just the mind and how it works. We none of us think the same. But for her Jewish never ends.

Korey Cooper  55:53  
She's a she's a true, authentic, creative artist. And there aren't many singers that are that way anymore. You know, I mean, not to go back to social media and Tik Tok fame, etc. But there are many people that when they take the stage, it's just, it's just so magical. Because she, she is embodying everything that she's singing, she is in a moment with the Lord. She is in the moment with the music, and a lot of people just can't even relate to that anymore. She's just a true, a true artist. So

Lacey Sturm  56:30  
that's funny. That's funny. You say it that way. Because the way I would say it is I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just like leaning back. wind and the wind blows then I've

Korey Cooper  56:43  
that's the genius. That's genius. Because like these days, a lot of people are so calculated like, because I'm a feeler to it's like, I don't understand getting up on stage and like planning moves. I'm like, No, you just feel it. You know what the music is doing? You just go but a lot of people are just so calculated now. They I think we've lost the maybe the the art and the patients for the true artists. But you know,

Lacey Sturm  57:09  
when we were not tour with corn, I think I met feel the reverse time in the lunchroom or wherever the way they got the criterion catering room. And he asked me, he's like, so you're in the opening band. I'm like, yeah, and he goes, so show me some of your moves.

Unknown Speaker  57:28  
Do you plan yours and out? I was like, I don't know how to plan those things.

Korey Cooper  57:39  
The same way, like unless now fires evolve. So I have to like plan where not to be at certain moments, but other than like, I don't know, I just was feeling that, you know. Anyways, yeah, those risers? Oh, yeah, the risers at first, there were backs to the riser. So I can lean on the back now, but at first there were no backs. And like John, such a slave driver, he's just like, you guys get up there. It's fine. It's fine. I like playing like, I couldn't actually die. I mean, it wouldn't be a bad way to go on stage, just like you left it on the stage.

Trevor Tyson  58:13  
So dropped down, which is bungee cords. What was it when our 2018

Korey Cooper  58:18  
our last one? I know the funny thing is he is like terrified of heights. So like, at least he made himself do something that he was terrified.

Trevor Tyson  58:29  
Well, he does look like a superhero. And he has them tattooed all over him. So like, it's it was cool to see him get to, you know, do that thing and then pull out the fog guns or whatever they are dry ice. You can tell he's like.

Korey Cooper  58:45  
Yeah, you gotta get the people to show up. You got to give the people to show.

Lacey Sturm  58:49  
You guys do the best shows. I mean,

Trevor Tyson  58:53  
literally down to y'all in Shinedown for the best show, like straight up, I'll get a co headliner. Like, I'd be there every night.

Korey Cooper  59:02  
Yeah. They know how to bring the show. Yeah. I mean, we'd love to see utricles You have like the people that just want to keep it real, like you're the Nevadas of the world where it's just like, it's not really about the show. It's about the angst or whatever it is, you know, but for us, you know, it's we like to see utricle side of the dynamics and our music lends itself to sort of ebbs and flows. That way when it's like you hit the peak, you really hit him hard because you just dropped down and I don't know. It's a whole experience, I guess the skill of Joe

Trevor Tyson  59:35  
this conversation could go on for hours, but just to kind of wrap it up I have something that I really feel like you both relate with in a way and you have such good messages revolving around it, which is conversation about faith and mental health. And especially over the past two years, suicide rates, drug overdoses and opioid usage has skyrocketed and people are feeling defeated in They're just trying to make it to the next day. So Cory starting with you, what would you say to somebody that's feeling defeated today. And maybe they're feeling like they're in a life and death situation, and they can't come back from whatever they may have done or what they're going through? What's the message of hope that you would give them?

Korey Cooper  1:00:17  
I mean, I can understand and relate on some level to depression and feeling just despairing. And sometimes, sometimes, all you can do is just make it till tomorrow, like sometimes the fight is just like, You know what, today might be a wash, but tomorrow is going to be better. So I'll just, you know, let this play out until tomorrow. And it's great how God's mercies are new every morning, right. And every morning, the sun does rise. He didn't have to do that. But he does. And there's always a beautiful, beautiful display of some form of sunrise that's different than the day before. And, and there is a God who does that for us. Every morning, there is a God who cares about everything that's going on in your life, and he can meet you where you're at, and you, you just can't let your feelings dictate to you reality, because your feelings aren't always going to be the way things are in there is always hope. The Bible talks about hope the Bible talks about the battle for hope. And there is always hope. And God can take your life. And let him keep painting the masterpiece, the beautiful masterpiece, that is your life. Let keep giving your life into his hands for him to mold and shape and change. Because He created you He formed you in your mother's womb, like he cares about all the details. And sometimes, like I said, all you can do is just make it through today. And you're going to feel better tomorrow, let him meet you tomorrow believe that he wants to believe that he can. Because he can't, and he will change a life that feels like it's worth nothing into something that is so beautiful and shines for His glory. Come on

Lacey Sturm  1:02:09  
voice. Wow, that was that's so much. You know, the thing is that Cory is not just talking to somebody, I just want to say she's not trying to give good advice or say something good. She's seen it in her life. She's seen God, show up the next day, she's seeing God turn things not just in her own life, but people around her. She constantly is, I mean, especially with the music that they write, and the kids that that listen to their music. Just hearing the stories of people who have been in that place, and watched miracles come and watch. Even just the miracle of walking through it in a natural way. You know, like and, and still breathing. You know, I'm still here, you know, and I'm only saying it because, you know, because I know, Cory I know that she's, she's seen that. And, and I would say, you know this song, Cory and I read together, you're not alone. You know, sometimes that is what, when we don't know, and we can sense this universe of distance between us in anything good. That's actually not reality, because you wouldn't be breathing. If God was not holding you together. And you he's right there. And it's like, it's like he, there's such a truth to this. That feels like a greeting card. But it it's actually truth. And I love when you said believe that he's there. Like some people don't want to believe because they're afraid they're going to be made a fool. They're afraid they're going to be sitting in a broken chair. They're afraid. All these voices come up and say don't be a fool and believe something. But what I would say is that it's it's foolish not to take right now this moment as a moment that he's speaking to you to believe in Him. You know, like he is, he is inviting you right now. To like to believe and to breathe in the breath that he's given you and acknowledges from him. And so sometimes we are in a place where we can't see it. Everywhere we look, we see the sun setting, everywhere we look we see it getting darker, you know, that after you know if we start looking for him, we start seeing the moonshine we start seeing the sun the stars come out we start hearing you know all of the life around us, we start seeing, he's in it still, even when it's dark, he's actually doing beautiful things. And so I guess my prayer for those people to just, just just believe that you're not alone. On, there's something beautiful going on, even when it's dark that you can't see, even if you can't see it, it's still there. You know, you sometimes your eyes have to adjust to the dark, and you start to see then, just like Cory said, Just keep walking, and don't stop walking through. Because there is a sunrise, that's gonna come. Like she said, that's the way the ebb and flow of the natural order happens is, once we get through, then we realize, wow, look at all the things I've gone through. Sometimes when we get depressed, we start calculating all the bad things that happen. And what we're doing the opposite of what our brains are intended in our memories intended for. We're supposed to calculate all the things that we went through that we've seen God take us through and overcome. Wow, you made it through that. You know, wow, you're still breathing after that. Wow, there was another day that came after that. Wow, there was a moment where I forgot that pain. And I was laughing. Why? You know, like, because there is more to come this way. They're not as working things together making that beautiful painting that you just described. He's turning it into glory and beauty. So just hang on.

Korey Cooper  1:06:30  
Yeah. Can I say one more thing, too. I think sometimes we think that we have to clean ourselves up before we can go to God, and just want to say that God is not afraid of your mess. Like it's actually okay to fall apart. And if, if Psalms teaches us anything, it's like, I think sometimes as Christians, we think that we can't be honest with where we're at, because it's too messy and ugly. And if you can learn anything from songs, and this is what I would do, if I'm feeling overwhelmed by you know, sadness, or hopelessness or anything, is I start writing my own songs, right. And there are songs that start off victorious and end victorious. But there are a lot of songs that don't end. It's just like, how long? Like how long is it gonna be this way. And, you know, bah, bah, bah, bah, blah, and it's a lot of it. Sometimes it just ends there. Sometimes it goes positive, because the eyes get fixed on God, and who he is. But just to be able to be honest, in the mess that you're in, cuz like, just let yourself fall apart. I'll let myself fall apart and the president. Recently, I texted lace, I'm like, Man, I'm just, these are the depths of my emotion. And I feel a fear that if I let myself go here, I might fall apart. But if I don't, I won't be able to face and she's like, sounds like a humbling time. And like, I'm so glad she gets me but like, let yourself fall apart in the presence of God. Right and like, know that he's gonna meet you there. And he's not he's not scared of it. He's not scared of your mess, as if he didn't know what was going on. He does. He's not like the light shines even in the darkest of dark places, right? He'll come for you and love you, Goddess love. That's who he is, you know, he'll come and bring wholeness and healing to you and meet you right there, where you're at, just be honest with him, like, let yourself fall apart in His presence. And in one of my favorite scripture, passages, and with this is in Matthew, where it talks about selling going, the man who discovered that there was a treasure in the field, went and sold all the heads so that he could get that treasure and field. And I would just encourage that heart of like, okay, if you're saying, like, I can give everything, even the vulnerability of this moment and my feelings to you, and that from me offering this to you and giving you everything that I will find that treasure that is your kingdom. If that's a promise, editor's, then that's what I want. I will give everything to have this, right. So I'm kind of like, what do you have to lose in this moment? What do you have to lose? Like, why don't you just try it? Try to see God, right? And see that he will be so faithful to meet you in this moment right now, with his wonderful presence, and his love and a peace that surpasses all understanding, you know? Oh, yeah. And shameless plug for the spark project. Because the other thing that I do when I'm feeling this way, is I like to worship, right? So you're worshiping as you're writing your song, and then I will express my heart to the Lord in song. So I love being able to work on the spark project of Gen Xers on at John's on it, I got to co produce it. And if you want to just suddenly be in the presence of God and worship Him, turn some of that music on. It'll get you there just like that. You know,

Trevor Tyson  1:09:47  
I can attest to that because that's how I geared up for this interview gotten that mental space. Also Lacey has her reflect love back project, which is an amazing thing to listen to. I remember jumping back into like touring and such. So it was very hard on me mentally with anxiety and such and or photo back album is just such a peaceful album. So now we can add the spark to that. But this has been phenomenal. Like thank you both for taking time out to be here and just sharing your heart. This was it. It was impactful for me I can say, and it feels like I just got out of therapy. So that way for you guys as well when everyone else does listening.

Lacey Sturm  1:10:28  
Yay. Thank you, Lord. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Okay, I feel like yeah, I feel like that's that's that's such one of my favorite things about Korea is it if you get into a real good conversation with you come away feeling better than you did before. Yeah. Domi

Trevor Tyson  1:10:50  
so everybody can go. Blair in their skillet record Bill Blair the spark. We'll put links for everything in the description below. And if you're struggling today, and you're watching this on YouTube or listening to this, just know that there are resources available for you. Our friends at heart support heart support.com have such amazing resources, death to life, which is an amazing organization run from by a dear friend of ours death, the number two life.com There's always a reason to live, choose life. Know that you are loved that the God of the universe loves you so much. And there's always a seat for you at the table. So, go tackle the day. We love you. We'll talk to you guys next week. Goodbye now.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai