Moriah Smallbone

Moriah Smallbone  0:00  
I know from my own experience, when I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I can do this. And not only can I do this, but I will do this, no matter the cost. And if you're if you are holding me back, then like get in the way. When I've gotten to those places in my own mind, and in my own heart, I've exhausted myself, and I've hurt people along the way.

Trevor Tyson  0:31  
Thank you for tuning in to Trevor talks podcast, where we talk to real people about real topics and real stories. Today, we have a powerhouse voice and this generation with us. Today's guest is a singer, songwriter, actress, activist, and podcast host, she just released a beautiful intimate EP in which she titled Live from the quarry, which is guaranteed to invite you into a sacred space of worship and peace. Ladies and gentlemen, here's my interview with Mariah Smallbone Mariah we finally made it like we're here, we did it.

Moriah Smallbone  1:04  
From the red carpet to Tennessee and Georgia.

Trevor Tyson  1:09  
I know, it's like, I know prior to like recording, we're talking about like red carpets, or it's hard to dive into deep conversation. But it also it was refreshing to get to meet before we did this to where we have that little bit of connectivity of like, they're not a fake person or behind an email. Like it's literally just Trevor and Mariah. Yeah, so

Moriah Smallbone  1:29  
that sounds like its own show. Your life with Trevor and Mariah,

Trevor Tyson  1:33  
look, I'm here for it. And I'm sure Kayla would be into it as well like, but super cool to finally sit down and talk about this EP, because ye from the quarry to me, has turned into this. Like, it's almost like you opened up a place for people to go into your deepest thoughts into worship and to experience the power that God gives you within worship and just being an ambient EP on its own. Like, I can tell that it was a vulnerable journey for you.

Moriah Smallbone  2:04  
Thanks for affirming that you're right. Pretty scary.

Trevor Tyson  2:12  
Yeah. Which this was the first project that you've written a back wrote all by yourself, tell us about that. I would have imagined that you'd wrote millions of songs all by yourself. But apparently, this is the first project that you wrote front to back all by yourself.

Moriah Smallbone  2:27  
Yeah, isn't that kind of surprising. Like I've been writing songs for 10 years, I I'm surprised myself that it's taken this long. But you know, writing a song it's a very nuanced thing. I think it I think it takes 10,000 hours, you know, to really feel like, unless you're just like, this magical unicorn that's just born a songwriter, and everything is like, perfect, you know, I've never I've never been the born with the gifts kind of person. Like, it's taken a lot of hard work to feel like I could call myself a singer, you know, to feel like I could understand my way around a doll system and to produce and, and to write songs like I have worked with so many brilliant songwriters, and producers over the last decade of being a musician and practicing in this, this art form. And I've been super lucky to be able to learn from people who I think are some of the best in their field. So I think because I've always worked with really gifted people, I've been a little too intimidated to believe that I could write a song on my own. I always felt like I needed help. And I still I still do. And I still very much love co writing. In fact, the last song coming out on December 3 of the laughing degree EP was the only co written song and and I it's one of my favorite. But I think it's also important to face any fears or insecurities in the art process. And for me, writing on my own was a form of facing, you know, some of those voices that are like you're not good enough to do this. And you need someone else to do it for you because you can't by yourself. Yeah, and so I'm really thankful that I was able to write it all but I never had any intention of sharing it with anybody. So I don't know if next time I try and write as long where myself and I know I'm going to share it or I want to share it. That might change the process a little bit. But every song written for this project was not written for this project, if that makes sense.

Trevor Tyson  4:58  
Wow. And it's, and you can tell like it wasn't written for people to hear like, this literally just sounds like a collection of songs that you intended to have like that vulnerable space with God, just you and God. And the way that you approach to this whole EP is like, I'm going to connect with God through this, I want to be as vulnerable as I can. And now like everyone can experience that with you. And I am genuinely like, I don't say it often. And you can go back into interviews, like I'm genuinely impacted by this project. Oh, ouch.

Moriah Smallbone  5:38  
For that means a lot, oh, my goodness, well, I, I take that to heart, I don't take that lightly. Particularly for someone like yourself, who's been in this space, doing what you do, and you're exposed to music all the time, and you're exposed to different artists, and you see the ins and the outs of what it takes to write and release music, like you're not naive to, to the process. And for this process to be significant to you. That's I take that to heart. Thank you.

Trevor Tyson  6:12  
Yeah, for sure. And with all the talk of vulnerability, and overcoming insecurities, and just full on tackling this music thing as your wife, like, you've been doing music a very long time. But even from your last project going into this, it's a whole different sound. And you're constantly innovating and exploring the new possibilities. But I'm curious to know, how did you get to this place to where you're comfortable enough to face those fears head on and to go after this calling that God's placed on your life? So would you mind sharing the story of how Mariah became Mariah?

Moriah Smallbone  6:52  
That sounds so much more cinematic than then this answer is going to be from a very logistical level. I was Mariah Peters, as my maiden name got married Mariah small bone. And once we started to think through how to release this music, I was like, let's just make it really simple for everyone. Mariah, and I and I love I love my name. I didn't always I used to actually really not like my name as a kid. Because I was the only one. And so I used to sign my like my papers. For school, I would sign it Chloe and I would ask my teachers to call me Chloe and asked my friends to call me Chloe. This is like, This is so sad such denial living in denial at a young age. But so shout out to anyone named Chloe, because that's a great name, great name, such a great name. But I think actually kind of simplifying things down to just my first name has been in sync with some of the changes that I've felt have happened and the winnowing that's happened over the last couple of years for me, like, just minimizing and being more minimal with with my life and folk and more focused, you know, like, I think, when we're afraid to go after the thing that God's called us to do, can get really easy to distract ourselves with other things. And I'm grateful that I've learned how to do so many things, particularly in this space. But I love writing music, I love singing, I love connecting with people over a song. And, and I'm a student, I'm a student of life, my name literally means God is my teacher. And so it's just interesting, like in just the timing in the past year and a half, like I wrote, produce all these songs for the first time I finished my college degree, gave it to my grandparents, I moved, you know, into this house that my husband and I have been working on for the past four years. And I don't know, there's just so much there's so many things timing wise that have happened, that feel like not just the turning of a page, not just the beginning of a new chapter, but like the beginning of a new saga, the beginning of a new, you know, just volume of books. And so yeah, the timing of, of this music coming out. Like I said, like I wasn't planning on releasing any of it. But I think that's part of the beauty of how it's translated and how it's come across is there was no ulterior motive in sharing this. It was written as therapy for myself, to get myself out of like a really low, dark place that I didn't know I was capable of reaching. And after, you know, writing the music processing allowed You know, affirming myself of some of these truths that I needed to know, through my own demos and my own voice, you know, using this, this this Blue Yeti microphone here, you know, like, just trying to remind myself of these things, like once I got to that point of actually having this library of songs in front of me, actually played them for my mentor, not for any other reason other than just connection, you know, it was, it's the same thing as like if I would read an excerpt of my journal to my husband. And she was like, Hey, I'm so glad that these songs have brought you healing. But I need to ask you the question, is there a chance that the songs were meant to help other people experience healing as well? So that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. And that's when I, that's when I kind of gave my yes of okay, God, if this is what you want, I will step forward despite my insecurities about it.

Trevor Tyson  11:02  
Yeah. And this album had to have sunlight, life experience, inspiration, obviously. So when it comes down to it, I know that this record was a lot more personable for you. Where did the inspiration for the creative of this come from?

Moriah Smallbone  11:22  
Well, I mean, I think because I was coming at it both from a lyric perspective, and a production perspective, the life inspiration, and the sonic inspiration, were kind of different. Two different buckets, you know, like, there, there was a season where I could not and did not listen to like worship Christian music like i i Looking back, I feel like it was important for me to have that season, where any time out here I would literally just like feel sick. I don't know what it was. But looking back, I think it's because maybe I had made an idol of worship music and Christian music and had felt like it was paramount to just connectivity with with the divine. And in that season of not listening to worship music, like I so I was so ministered to by so many other things, by nature, by friendships, by health and exercise by rap music, by music that's written by people that I know for sure are agnostic yet that lyric like, woke something up in my spirit. And I was like, worshiping you know, it's just, I think it's a good reminder that we don't have the trump card on music and the power of music God works within and without us. And it's humbling, you know, to come back to that place of, okay, I'm a small piece, a small piece of the big hole, but the sonic inspiration, I mean, at the time, I was listening to a lot of rap, which is funny, because in the in the live versions it like you're not gonna hear, not gonna hear any of that influence. But I had, I had sent my original demos to my neighbor, who is the music director at the church that we used to go to, and he, I asked him, I was like, hey, is there any way you can put together a band who can reimagine the songs and do live versions of them? So the versions you hear are really the interpretations of the musicians of my original demos, and I love what they added to the song some of the songs, they completely changed the tempo and the time signature, and it's so good for the live setting. So sonically, I think the inspiration was kind of all over the place. Yeah. But lyrically it's weird to say this, but the inspiration was really heartbreak and pain. And it's, it's not like I was going through these difficult things and these broken relationships and going, Oh, this is so painful. I just want to write a song. It was like, this sucks so bad. I have no way of even understanding right side up from upside down. I need a song to just help me sort like like I know that songs have structure and so on. If I can put this experience into some form of a structure, maybe I can just comprehend it a little bit better. So that's where a lot of the inspiration came from.

Trevor Tyson  15:11  
I love that. And, you know, there's so many times in our lives that we're going to find ourselves in this unique situation where you have a friendship end, and you don't ever expect it to end. It's like one of those things where, like, oh, this person is going to be my best friend for the rest of my life. And then one day, something happens, and it's almost like it just disintegrates. And while it's sad, like, it's almost a new chapter for both parties, no matter who's in the right, who's in the wrong, it's like, okay, I have a clear lens, like, how am I going to go into this, but it's unique to hear someone open up and be like, Hey, I was able to turn this pain in a worship. I've never heard that about heartbreak in that way. So I think that's super unique in its own right. But I really want to dive into the songs in particular. So first, I want to jump in the known seen loved and the lyrics that I put down, are letting go of ego, putting down my pride, holding to a new hope, trusting what's inside, letting go of ego putting down my pride holding on to no hope. Now. I won't deny I'm known seen loved. What be that big puzzle? Did this anthem come from?

Moriah Smallbone  16:28  
I'm so glad that that were jumped out to you. No one in none of the interviews I've done. I've done a ton. Nobody's picked out that particular lyric. And yet that's one of my favorite lyrics, the mind to the songs. Yeah, I'll have to go through that. Yeah, yeah. Well, I thought that was the big gift to me of the heartbreak. Like, I thought that heartbreak was exclusive to romantic relationships. But turns out heartbreak. With friends and family and working relationships that can be even more painful. It can be rough. And I think one of the many gifts that I feel like that pain brought me was an opportunity to self reflect and to transition from being a victim to being a more integrated, self aware person. I think when we experience pain, and particularly when it feels like it's at the hand of someone else, it's really easy to go into a How could they How dare they? I did all this, right? They did all this wrong. Like we we want to justify why we feel what we feel. And it's pretty natural to put the blame on other people. And there's no shame in that. I mean, that's part of the process. But I think it's healthy to transition out of there into, okay, what have what have I let slip up? What have I done to cause harm? What role did I play in this relationship riff? And, and I realized just through lots of prayer, through lots of counsel through lots of conversations with my mentor, that I have an ego I mean, all of us do, but I mean, I have as a goal oriented, achievement, focused, driven person. And those are some of my favorite things about myself. When those things are not checked at the door, you know, the natural tendency is to put product over people, or to put the mission over over the personnel. And that's that's never a sustainable practice. That's never a good thing. It doesn't matter how high we feel our calling is. God never asks us to move towards something while running over people on the way. So I That's a, that's a I mean, just to be honest. It's not something I typically get into conversationally, but I mean, I just, it's, it's the truth and I I'm thankful for any chance that anyone listening can hear me as an artist, who, you know, has these faith claims to also in the same breath be like I can also be a selfish brat.

Trevor Tyson  19:47  
And it's, I love that you're highlighting that because it's all about the mindset behind it. Like are you really goal driven oriented for the right reasons? Or are you just being arrogant and thinking that you deserve something you don't. And I personally like when it comes to this brand that we're building and the podcasts and everything is like, I set out to do what God called me to do. But at the same time, I always had in the back of my head, I'm like, so many people said this would never happen. So let's go ahead and prove them all wrong. And I see that as being healthy. And I'm proud of that. And I love that part about myself as well. Like being ambitious, there's nothing wrong with being good at something. And it's not crazy to have astronomical dreams. Never in a million years, but I think I'd be sitting here having a conversation with Mariah Smallbone, like these. Any of a lot of what's happened in the past year, I'm just like, like, God has his hand on it. And my ego, quote, unquote, can come from God, like I have that confidence that, you know, I believe God's got something big planned. And he did the same thing for you. And he gave you that. He's given you your voice. He's given you your songwriting abilities, he made you a dadgum producer, like, He's none at all.

Moriah Smallbone  21:04  
No, no, you're right. And I think there's a difference between confidence in the God that we serve and the God that created us, and then confidence in our own abilities. And that's a super nuanced thing, because, like, I come from a sports background, so it's like, you can't step onto a basketball court, and like, step up to that free throw line and be thinking, I suck, I'm not gonna make it like, you have to mentally tell yourself, like, I'm the best free throw shooter that there has ever been. And this is about to be nothing but net, everybody wants, you know, like, you have to have that kind of mental fortitude. But I think when it comes to art and the things that we're called to do, I know from my own experience, when I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I can do this. And not only can I do this, but I will do this, no matter the cost. And if you're if you are holding me back, then like, get in the way. When I've gotten to those places, in my own mind, and in my own heart, I've exhausted myself, and I've hurt people along the way. And so I think only the spirit can guide us in those super situational moments where we're faced with, okay, how do we deal with people's maybe discouraging spirit? How do we deal with people who are? Maybe we might look at it as like, well, they're just trying to hold me back. But maybe, maybe we're not meant to despise the tools that God uses to shape us. You know, maybe they're people are trying to say things that we don't want to hear, but are super important for our character. And that's the difference between believing that the most important thing in life is success, and believing that the most important thing in life is long term relationships, health and endurance, you know,

Trevor Tyson  23:15  
that is about a run around this desk. She already and I think that's a perfect segue into the next song, which is trust. The lyrics that really stuck with me from that are deep, like, just give everybody a little heads up spot.

Moriah Smallbone  23:31  
Curious. I'm so curious. Here we go. Trevor talks,

Trevor Tyson  23:34  
right? I'm running low on energy. There. In the end of my way, you never asked for high speed, I'm slowing down to say, I will strengthen myself by trusting in you. I've got mountains to climb and walls to break through. It's like, you're on that breaking point where you're like I'm done. And you decide to press through. And that's, that's a daily struggle for a lot of people. It's like they're on the edge of their seat like and we can even dive down into like mental health like people that are choosing to live and other day people that are choosing to fight and fight suicidal ideation and mental well, just anxiety and depression. So many people struggle with that right there. And I love that the song is called trust. And you highlight like, the exact thing is that like I find myself being low on energy. I find myself feeling like like what am I doing like why don't I just go work for somebody why don't have to do this and that like, because with more whatever comes more responsibility like spider man quote, I think Praise God. This song is just again as vulnerable but I'm curious to hear what was the point in your wife were these lyrics just flowed out of you?

Moriah Smallbone  24:52  
Hmm. Yeah, if anyone's been there, if anyone has been at that point where like you can't will yourself to, to do the thing that's in front of you. Then this might, this might make sense what I'm about to say, I was driving, this was towards the tail end of 2019. I was driving from Franklin to Nashville. It's about a 30 minute drive. And, and I, I, I was driving to a meeting that I desperately did not want to go to. And emotionally could not handle relationally was absolutely spent. I knew that I was about to step into a situation where I would be a proverbial punching bag. And I was just like, I'm like, so be like, I just, I, there's nothing in me that wants to go or to do this. And this is so embarrassing. Okay, so I was driving. And as I was driving, I was just like crying, and probably throwing a bit of a pity party of like, Why do I have to go. And I started singing these words out loud, to myself through tears, to try and find some things something in me to keep going. So I'm driving, and I'm like

Moriah Smallbone  26:34  
and I'm just going and I'm pretty sure if anyone pulled up next to me and saw me like in that state, they would have been like, does she need help? Like,

Trevor Tyson  26:45  
I think she should be driving right now.

Moriah Smallbone  26:47  
She can't see through those tears, she cannot see. So ironically, I got to a point where I was like, crying so much that I couldn't sing through the tears anymore. So record, this is so pathetic, I recorded my I recorded that chorus on my phone. While I I still could before the sobs came, you know, I some of the mountains. It was a breakthrough, I will strengthen myself, but Justin, you and I, I recorded that on my phone. And then I just hit play. And I just kept hitting play. And I kept listening to myself, say those words, because I knew that my strength was tapped out. Like my abilities were tapped out, I was at the bottom of the barrel and nothing was left. And so I had to strengthen myself by trusting in something in someone greater than myself. And, and that that gave me the the energy to just to step forward into the next thing. And for a lot of people. You know, if you haven't been in this place, you might be listening to this door and be like, pathetic, she had to go I'm meeting dumb. But for some people, it's like, getting out of bed, like driving to your job. You are, you are at the end, and it is insurmountable. And that's when you know you're in a really difficult place when when the little things that are seemingly mundane and simple, are, are these mountains. They're these mountains, they're these huge walls and you can't see your way through to the other side. Nor do you have energy to even want to see your way through to the other side. But that's that's the beauty of this. If we really believe in this idea of a loving, infinite God, that's when in my own life I have felt most connected to the Divine because I look back and I'm like, I physically could not do that. Something else needed to intervene someone else needed to come in and give me strength for another day.

Trevor Tyson  29:23  
Sheesh, I know, I've been they're not driving to that exact meeting. That'd be kind of weird. But we we all have that moment where we're like, why am I doing this and a perfect segue yet again into the next song is like, am I even worth taking this meeting? You know, is it worth my time showing on to the music and that song is so impactful in this whole EP is and I'm not just saying that like legit like, I'm just sitting here like I had, you can't plan for stuff like this. Uh, especially when something is so personal to you, people are going to hear it and hopefully it transcends and inspiration for them. And one of the other things that you said like just, I have to be the best point guard, I have to be the best free thrower. It reminds me of one person in particular, that's a fan of the show has been a friend of the brand for a long time. Her name is Kristen Bloodsworth. And she's a huge fan of for king and country, a huge fan of your music, Mariah. And one I remember a conversation we had a while back. And she's like, I don't and I hope she doesn't mind me sharing this. But she's like, I don't, I don't see myself being able to do this music thing or being able to finish this course she was in college for music this like, God's got you, like, be the best at what you're doing. And, to my knowledge, she finished a song but like, I just I love being able to highlight people that are out there actively doing what God's doing and knowing that you went through the exact same thing I could, I guess, see, hopefully her and a bunch of other people find encouragement from it. And

Moriah Smallbone  31:03  
yes, I wish she What's What did you say her name was?

Trevor Tyson  31:06  
name is Kristen Bloodsworth. Chris, I'll send you I'll send you her account on Instagram, I'll give it to you. Because you know,

Moriah Smallbone  31:13  
what I'll do is if you send me her account, all DM her my outline and my handout for a lecture I just gave at my college. So I graduated last year, which shout out to Class of 2020, none of us walked, all of us got mailed our caps and gowns and like slept in them at night. And that was the best we could do. Sad. But I got asked to come in and give a lecture to one of these ensemble classes where a lot of the students had, you know, a passion for music and songwriting, performance, video production, audio production, all the things and and it's just, it's interesting, you know, if you, if you put yourself in that scenario, Trevor, and be like, Okay, if I had to speak to a classroom of students who are interested in like, this space, what would I say? And for me, where I landed, was, the title for my lecture was sustainable artistry. Because you can learn how to be a great producer, you can learn how to be a very skilled podcaster, how to edit how to audio engineer, and, and how to sing perfectly on pitch and, and how to write a great song, you can learn all these things, and all of these skills are so important. But if you get to the end of of these abilities, and you reach the height of whatever lane you're in, but you don't have sustainable practices to help you experience that journey in a healthy way. It's not worth it. It's not worth, you know, driving yourself into the ground, losing your relationships, you know, reaching a point of anxiety levels where you're no longer capable of getting on a stage like, I know what that's like and three, so when you when you are able and for Christie, Kristen Christie, Kristen, yeah, Kristen, when she, you know, says, Man, I don't think I can turn this music thing. I mean, the truth is, you probably can't, none of us can. None of us can do it naturally, healthily, it takes so much. So much willingness to admit that we can't which you're already there, and that's great to go Okay, now that I know that this is really difficult, and I might not have the strength and the resources to do this on my own. How do I reach up how do I reach out? How do I start to think through how to do this in a way that's not for myself but for others? As a calling unto the Lord like anything you need to be able to think outside of your your four walls of your mind, if that makes sense.

Trevor Tyson  34:06  
100% and Sheesh. So much knowledge in this but I want to get to the last song that you released which is known, which is featuring hubby Joel Smallbone and the lyrics I pulled from this one. Hold on. Am I worth it? In my moment of shame. There you found me just to say I am worth it. Tell me your promise. Remind me of how you'll never leave me and you won't fill me now.

Moriah Smallbone  34:39  
Hmm. I had this this is a funny lyric because when I first wrote worth I wrote it with a different Chorus I wrote I wrote it as a question and as a desire. The lyric was originally Hey, Sam worsted Sam worth it. And it's just this like longing that I think we all feel at, you know, different points of our lives to different degrees. But I, I shared this demo with my husband when we were in a grocery store parking lot. And as I was playing it for him I could I looked over when the song was finished, and he, he was a little misty eyed, I was like, oh, okay, I wasn't expecting that. And mainly because I was like, just excited to show him the production, you know. And, you know, he was so, so encouraging with that particular song. And it really was the version that you hear now on DSPs on YouTube, was a result of his his encouragement to me to do two things, one, to strip it all back, like the version I played for him was like, the most busy production I think I've ever done. And he really encouraged me to bring it back to just electric guitar and vocals, which is so exposing and so vulnerable and so scary, particularly because I wouldn't consider myself to be a guitar virtuoso. And, but his his, his heart behind it was like, this is a vulnerable lyric, this is a vulnerable song, and it feels like the production and the musicality should match. And so he helped me with my my nervousness around that, I wish there was like a behind the scenes of when we were actually recording that song, because what you see on YouTube is like really peaceful and precious and wonderful. But like, in the moment, I was, like, I'm not playing the right chords, oh, my gosh, this is sounding terrible. This is awful. Like, I didn't say the right words, oh, my god, like, I was so scared. And he really, he really was a calming presence in it. And then the second thing he encouraged me to do was to change the tense of the chorus lyric. So instead of Sam worth it, changing it to, I am worth it. Worth it. And I'm so glad that I that he pushed, because I wasn't listening. At first, I was like, Nah, I don't want to change it. And I'm really glad that that I listened. Because now when I hear this song, and when I sing the song, it's, it's a manifestation, it's a declaration. It's, it's part of the process of how you, you find a way out of that dark place. You know, I think if I would have left lyric at Samworth exam, whether I would have just been reminded of like, how, how much longing I had, which I think there there are other parts of the other songs that speak to that longing. And it's so important to acknowledge that need, but there does come a point where you have to try to to talk yourself up and talk yourself out. It's interesting, I think it's kind of really sunk in the impact of the song and the impact of that particular lyric edit. It's sunken as the song has released, and people have responded. One of the messages I got two nights ago was from a woman whose mom had just tried to take her own life and thankfully failed, but was then left in the hospital with some issues that she had to work through.

Moriah Smallbone  39:04  
And so the daughter went to the hospital played worth for her mom. And the nurses called the daughter saying, Your mom is screaming this song at the top of her lungs. It's her anthem, it she's singing it every day, you know, things like thank you for sharing her this song with her. And she sent me that story. And I was I was really first of all thankful that she would have the courage to share that story with me. But secondly, just reminded that we see such a small, such a small piece of the big picture and we are such a tiny corner of of the big picture. And there was nothing in me that was thinking oh, I'm gonna write this song so that some woman who has these specific struggles can sing it out loud, you know, I never thought that I never thought I'd release the music in general. So when you step back and you see those stories, it's very, it's, it's very exposing of how little control we actually have in how God can take God. God's math is different than ours. Like the ratios are different. The scales are different. He can take the tiniest bit of faithfulness, you know, me, someone who had written a song and was like mad at wanting to change the lyrics, you know, he can take that and turn it into something that can really impact someone's life and healing and journey. So I I'm, I'm glad that those particular lyrics stuck out to you.

Trevor Tyson  40:48  
Yeah. Wow, this has been not even just an insightful conversation, but I feel peaceful, just about everything you've shared and the topics that we've gotten to discuss hearing your story, your in behind the lyrics and everything. i It leaves me, like excited to a listen to the EP more, which we're gonna put all the links and everything in the description. But it makes me wonder like, what is next? And I'm sure we'll see a whole lot more of you coming up. And I'm just grateful for those conversations. So thank you for joining us and being so vulnerable and sharing and open a conversation. Oh,

Moriah Smallbone  41:31  
Trevor, Trevor talks. Thank you, Dan, thank you for how you just create space for authentic dialogue, because there's a lot of stuff I think that I've shared in our conversation that I haven't felt the liberty to share and other ones so thank you.

Trevor Tyson  41:47  
Of course, and again, everything is linked in the description below for all of Mariah social media, and the EP music videos all that good stuff. Y'all should go buy some merch on her web store, which will last the all of your closets but thank you again, the new release today and the whosoever is movement for making this episode happen, and we'll talk to you guys next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai